Readers digest
Jan 17th, 2007 by Peter
Yesterday I received an email from a reader of this blog. A Chinese girl, who was interested in knowing my idea about the difference in perspective and personality between Chinese and Danish girls.
The question made me ramble on, and think hard about the subject. This is my reply to her (slightly edited to keep her anonymous and make it more readable to which I failed now that I read it again).
Please take this entry for what it is. I’m not trying to dis girls, women or Danish ones of that in particular. Remember I married one of the species and would do it again. It’s just some thoughts and I may be off on some points. It is a mans view so put that in the back of your mind as you read.:
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Hi xxxx
Thank you for your email. Always happy to hear from readers.
Forgive me for the horrendously long mail, but you started my brain up, and made me think hard. Thank you for asking, for this made me reflect on the subject of differences and I learned a lot from writing about this.
I also think that my answer to you may be worthy of putting on my blog, so I will put it there later, but of course keep your details and mail anonymous/confidential. So now you know.
You are right. There are differences between Chinese and Danish girls. That’s for sure.
I can’t pinpoint it in one single sentence. This is very hard to do, since I only know a few Chinese Girls besides my wife. I also believe that all persons are different no matter country of origin. In my opinion, there are some basic things these girls I know of have in common though.
Chinese girls are extremely diligent and hard studying/working compared to Danish girls. You can find Danish girls with the same trade of course, but they are fewer and can’t be compared in all other areas. Danish society and schooling raises a different type of women. With good and bad sides.
I think many Danish girls are spoiled from childhood. This goes for the men as well. Denmark is a rich country generally, and you seldom see beggars or poor people on the street. Denmark has a well-fare system, which is rated the best in the world by many of the countries we compare ourselves to. This means no one have to be really poor or be homeless unless they do this as a lifestyle (I know it may sound a bit crazy). No one dies of hunger, or has to beg for money except those who chose to. Often the people you see beg, or without homes in Denmark are either alcoholics or people who don’t fit the norm for society. The alcoholics often use their state provided money for liquor and beer instead for shelter and food, so they have to beg to get by. Those who just don’t fit the society use the money “on-the-road” by choice.
I too have been spoiled knowing that a decent future is secured here no matter what you choose. So I am no exception in this regard.
From childhood most Danish children are told to do what they want regarding their school. Just as long as we get an education, it doesn’t matter which. University is no demand from our parents, even though studying generally are free here. “Follow your heart, and be happy with what you chose”: we are often told. It is only possible because of our system. This has both good and bad elements. It teaches the children to think for themselves and follow their heart, but can often make us very lazy and too laid back. Sometimes I like the Chinese model better, since Chinese learn to fight for their future and therefore study harder.
Sorry about all the Danish society info, but that explains why many here are spoiled in my view.
I believe Chinese women also have a good view on marriage in general seen by Danish eyes. As many Danish girls are spoiled and manipulated by magazines, commercials and media, they demand extremely much from their husbands and boyfriends. At the same time they demand nothing in other areas.
Let me explain: Many Danish girls have big freedom to do what she wants. She can have same career as men, get same wage as men and so on (as always there are exceptions to the rule, but basically this is the case). Most Danish girls really don’t need men for material needs anymore. In old days a girl would face a grim future or hard life, if she (or her family) didn’t marry wisely. Modern times she can have it all with the money she earns herself. This means more independent women and also they get pickier about men, and why shouldn’t they?
In Denmark men and women are equals by law and most personal opinions. There are obvious differences of course. I know that this is the case in the most modern cities in China too, but as far as I know the law in China is not adapted to this view. For example if a Danish couple decide to get a divorce, the courthouse will always vote in favour of the child’s needs and not just let the husband decide if he wants the child or not. The same situation in China favours the man. Correct me if I am wrong. China is such a huge country, and the law may be different some places. This is just what I have knowledge about.
Anyway, this difference about Danish and Chinese women’s view on marriage also teach the Chinese women to have an attitude to work harder to make a marriage work. Danish women (and men) are thought to always do what the want (which mostly is to be selfish) and not be wise in the long run. As all people know, that a marriage have ups and downs, but I think sometimes Danes give up too easy. It is simply too easy for both parts here and mostly the consequence is “only” emotional and does not make or break the females future. My view is that this is different in China. Again, correct me if I am wrong. I have no deeper understanding of China, nor do I have a social degree to back up my views.
As most women here are self dependant it has become harder for men to find someone to marry and love. You can say all that I have said about Danish men too, and this complicates finding a spouse. As a matter of fact 1/3 of all young Danes under 30 years old, live alone by choice. This states how difficult it is to commit to a relationship (or easy not to, if you will).
Another difference is that I believe most Chinese women are good cooks, which can’t be said about the current generation of Danish girls. Many Chinese girls find that they are nothing special in this regard, because they compared themselves with their Chinese friends. There is always someone better. This, by the way, also underlines how Chinese girls are more modest than Danish girls. If a Chinese girl with average skills in cooking looked at an average girl in Denmark, she would discover herself to be a super chef. Nothing less. Danish girls (and men for that sake) of this generation are generally lousy cooks. McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza restaurants have done that to us. Also the parents of my generation, found that Children should be taught with great freedom. So basically the young people here were never pressured to learn cooking. Again, I speak generally, because there are some really good cooks here, but they are outnumbered by the rest of us who may know how to cook a bit, but not that well.
As you can see, I believe there are some huge differences between Danes and Chinese girls in some points, and in others there aren’t. I believe the most critical reason that some western men are attracted to Chinese girls may be because men and women roles are more pre-defined in China. I don’t mean this as a negative thing, even though this may witness about less freedom for Chinese women. The Danish men (like myself) can more easily understand what Chinese women expect, unlike Danish girls who want it all and expect too much sometimes. The Chinese female fits the woman role and Danish men find that more comfortable. If this goes the other way around, I am not to tell.
I’ve often talked with my male friends about this very same subject and we mostly agree that generally Danish women want everything. They want a strong man, who is not afraid to be weak. A handsome man, who is not afraid to be ugly. A grown man, who is not afraid to be a boy. A decisive man who is not afraid to be show confusion. A brave man, who is not afraid to scared. A hard man who is not afraid to be sensitive.
All those things should be accomplished by one single man and now comes the worst part: It should be done EXACTLY when the wife/girlfriend wants it. Not 2 days later when the man is in that mood or place in life, but exactly when the woman needs it. As you may understand this is impossible, which make many men throw the towel in the ring. Then suddenly single life seems easier. This is of course my personal opinion, and the very same issue is heavily debated in the media here. I can probably find thousands who will disagree on both sides of the sex.
Maybe I should mention that men have similar ridiculous demands and expectations about women some times, but in other fields. For instance many women feel the need to live up to men’s expectations of being a good mother who is also a good daughter-in-law, a good representative for the family and the man, a mistress, a “rock” in their home and so on. Also free pornography here in Denmark has made men set huge expectations. Men expect sex to be like in porn movies, while women try to live up to the very same unrealistic movies. This is bound to go wrong.
In my view Danish society have now surpassed equality between the sexes (still problems for women with equal wages sometimes though). I think women in some cases have gained even more than they lacked in the early 1900’s. In some cases their demands are higher and more unreasonable than men’s. I don’t blame them, but this is just how the world turns these last decades. The good thing about this change is that it has taught Danish men to keep up and be better husbands and boyfriends from the 1960s to now, but lately this has also made us extremely confused. Men have never understood women well, but many Danish men really don’t understand Danish women at all anymore. We now get complex signals, and can’t decipher them. Chinese girls and Danish men seem easier to pair up some how. Danish men can relax more and be “a man”, while Chinese girls may find Danish/western men more??? well, you tell me. :-)
I do not know much about Chinese men, but I believe that there is difference between how they and western men think and treat women. One thing I have noted is that Chinese men are considered more important than women (by themselves and their families). It is just a hunch and some specific stories I have been told, so I can’t say for sure. I know a few stories of Chinese women being put in bad situations by the Chinese law (which protects men most), but that is nowhere enough for me to generalize about Chinese men.
I have understood from a few China related books, is that it is more accepted among men (and their parents/siblings) that the man has a mistress besides their wife. This is not the case in Denmark, and if this happens, Danish men do not talk about it. In China, having a mistress, can be a sign of high status. I believe that it is not as common here. The Danish society sees adultery to be wrong and the Danish law of marriage is based on Christianity. Not that most Danes are religeous, but the platform for the current society is built on Christianity. Christianity teaches adultery to be “illegal” and must be avoided (if you wonder, I’m an atheist). Of course it happens here too, but in my knowledge it is more widely accepted in China. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As always, all people are individuals, and should be judged on their personal character. This goes for Chinese and Danish/western men. We have many rotten apples here too. Judge the man you meet on his personality and not his background (Chinese/western).
I am sorry for the long email, but your question really made me think and then my ramblings are hard to stop.
All the best to you.
Peter
Am I totally of track? Your comment will be appreciated.
I’ll just throw in an eyeroll here and leave it at that.
At least you threw something. Tnx. :-)
I really enjoyed this post, Peter. Keep up the good job
Thx Pike :-)
Good assessment of Danish women. Thank you.
Thank you Joe.
I think alot of this rings true. People’s unrealistic expectations is leading to a hopeless situation. I see it every day here in Denmark and when I lived in America it was mostly the same (12 years) but I think that Danish women seem even more spoiled in some regards. Thanks, this made me think too.
Thanks for your opinion Martin. Nice to know that I am not THAT far off :-)
This has sparked my curiosity and I have some questions …
How old are danish guys and girls when they start getting their first jobs and joining the workforce? Do your schools and parents put alot of effort into helping you choose a suitable carrer at a young age?
I guess its individual. Some start at 14 with an after school, weekend, vacation or evening job, and I think this would be at the age of 15. I think there is a law for when you can start, but I can’t remember if it is 14 or 15.
Then there are a few who after 7 years of school (which is obligatory) goes directly to apprenticeship with mixed work and schooling for a particular job. This would normally be things like smith’s working, auto mechanic or similar. This is few though.
Most young people finish school which is 9 years, while some take a last 10th like I for example did.
Then on to high school or commercial school followed by either apprenticeship or working. So I guess that would make most people start “real” work at 19-22 depending what line you chose. Some continue further to university, so they wait longer to start work of course.
Long bla bla for a short answer, sorry :-)
I think it is very different how parents treat their children regarding education here. Some push their children forward (especially if they want the child to take over family business or similar), but I would say that most tend to pick the more soft approach and try to encourage the child to go their own way. AS LONG as the child doesn’t slack off and never do anything. Most parents will tell the child to find the job they like and follow that path the end until they have an education within that field. At least that’s what I know my father did with me.
Ahh, I see. People start getting jobs here around 16 too, so at least that much is similar although I have worked since I was a kid hehe. My dad was a farmer so I helped with the crops every year so I don’t know what it’s like to just sit around and not work, the longest Ive been without a job is only a matter of weeks when we moved to a different house.
Ive read through the things youve wrote in this topic carefully and it has helped me to understand the situations Ive been going through lately a little better. I see now that some people get tired of things and give in too easily and that its not something I should blame myself for.
I know that you all have something over there called gymnasium, is that part of your regular schooling or part of college?
“Gymnasium” is most comparable to High School, Grammar School or Upper Secondary School in US or England. It is not a definitive path, but is not focused on trading like for example “Handelsskole” which you would compare easiest to Commercial School.
Gymnasium is always picked by those who want to be doctors, vets or the more soft skills like musicians, pedagogues and such as it is mandatory (I think) for them to complete this school first.
Handelsskole is for those who want t work in the field of office work, sales, stock markets, international trade and so on. I went with handelsskole myself, but never used it much jobwise before later.
Hi,
I saw a terrible thing in Denmark. A friend who dated a danish girl treated her as a slut. He has a great job and she was working with old people…
They met twice once just few hours then the second date he slept at her place during the weekend. After that she cald him to sleep at her place in the night. He went at her place after 23:00 in the night. I was at his place… when he did that. The thing I do not understand is that he had diner with me and colleagues in the week and he was going at her place the friday night an wednesday night after 23:00. He brings me to diner at some friends place during the weekend. He did not invite her… Is that normal? I think she was treated very badly and I was sad for her. In France guys will consider me as easy… and they will make fun of me… if I behave like that. Then she tried to keep him… What happened after was really sad because you can guess how it ended. I would like to have your point of view regarding that. Is that common in Denmark? Do danish girls behave like that? Because it is very weird for to be so fast in sex with someone who is totally different of me with a gape in education (in degrees…) and other points? And of course who do not take the time to see me and to speak with me?
Thank you for your comments
Regards
Hi Miss1977,
Thanks for reading my blog.
I think your question is pretty difficult to answer with one definite yes or no. First of all, I’m not a girl, and I never has been a guy that took advantage of women (and never had a chance to, some would say) :-P
Even though I believe that Danish girls are a bit freer with their body/sexuality than for example 10 years ago, I am not quite sure whether this is more or less than in France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Germany etc. I simply don’t know enough about the girls from these countries.
What I do think is that Danish girls have very individual views if you ask them one by one. Some would never have sexual encounters without getting to know the guy properly (and what is properly – 2 dates or after marriage?), while others would go for a one-timer without hesitation. I believe the last is based on physical attraction, which may not have been accepted/popular 30 years ago. Times have changed, and so has the average women’s thinking/desires. I think less really young women want to engage in a serious relationship as they are in their early twenties, so they go out and experiment some years. Then around 25-30 years, they begin looking for something stable. Saying this, I ‘m generalizing of course. It really depends on the individual in every single case.
So I’m not sure whether your Danish friend was treated wrongly, or she got what she wanted. Did she want a fling or something serious? Did he let her on, and did she let him well-knowing what went wrong? Was she expecting casual sex, or did she try to woe him that way? Only she can really answer.
If he let her on, had his way with her and left her crying, well, who is a fool? Him for doing it to her, or her for letting him? I can’t really answer that one. No matter what I feel sorry for her if she was heartbroken. Then it’s not important who’s to blame. If they both got what they wanted (some casual encounters), then good for them both. Somehow I think she was played, but can’t determine for sure from what you wrote.
I don’t believe that this behaviour is the general way Danish women meet men, but I know that some do of course. It may be a bad comparison, but I’ll use it anyway (lacking better alternatives). I think that sexual encounters / dating in Denmark has evolved almost like fashion. When I was a teenager, there were certain rules to be followed. If you wanted to be popular, you’re better wear some special brands of clothes. In my days this would be: Pringle, La Coste, Ball, Kappa and so on. While this may still be an issue, I am not sure it is as important. There are still new popular colours for the season, but it is not critical to follow the “rules”. Making your own style may even be considered brave and you’ll see many youngsters going for a certain look (skater, hip-hopper, casual, and so on) and still be accepted. In my youth showing up in something totally off-key like that, would be the same a social death sentence.
If you use my silly fashion metaphor for describing girl’s pattern of dating / sexual freedom here in Denmark, I would say that this was almost the same. Some decades ago, the trend would be less promiscuity and more caution. Now the times have changed and it is more common for some girls to go all the way early on. More girls date a lot and have sex early in a relationship (with different agendas I guess), while for others the opposite is the case. What is most common I’m not exactly sure, but I guess that most girls really go slower than your friend. Many years ago, I think sex was used as a kind of “currency” for some women. If a man wanted sex, he’d better make sure it was worth it for the woman. She didn’t need it or felt forced to have it. Now more women want sex too, so the playing field is evened a bit more out, though I think women still have a bit of advantage. In modern society other stuff have become more important. Women can have successful careers and don’t need a wealthy man to get money, home and a comfortable life. This also made it easier to deselect some things that years ago was more important, and single out what they want from life and focus on that. There are so many more things to choose from and therefore some women have become more egoistic (not meant negatively) and the focus is more set on short-term gratification.
What has made it so, I’m not sure. Is it because modern Danish girls have more confidence or have more pressure for performance put on their own shoulders? Has this pressure come due to the extreme load of information and movies we all get on a daily basis? Is it because of the growing porno market and the Internet opening up. Actually I’m not quite sure. I do think porno movies play their part, since they portray women engaging in sex very quickly, doing all kind of strange stuff and enjoying it too. Maybe some girls embrace this change, while others feel forced to have sex since this is what is “expected” from them. Hard to say really.
What people do with their body is their own business. As long as they don’t intentionally hurt others. And ohhh btw – they should use condoms if they sleep around a lot. That just good common sense ;-)